Suite Talk Episode Three: Hospitality Leadership with Frank Marrenbach

In this episode of the Suite Talk series for the Venari Podcast, our Hospitality & Leisure Lead Sean Tribull speaks to Frank Marrenbach. Frank has gained plenty of wisdom over his illustrious career in hospitality, but his appearance on the podcast had an extra significance for Sean, for whom Frank has long been a role model and trusted source of counsel.

Check out the video below for their full conversation, which takes in Frank's leadership philosophy, his approach to hiring, and the challenges he's faced, among other topics. You can also find a transcript of their conversation, which has been edited for concision and clarity.

Welcome to the CEO podcast series. In this episode, I have the great pleasure of welcoming Frank Marrenbach, CEO and Managing Partner at Althoff Hotels and former CEO of Oetker Collection, where he led the group for over a decade.

On a personal note, having Frank on the podcast is incredibly special for me. He's been one of the main inspirations behind my decision to pursue a career in hospitality and a true role model for great leadership. Over the years, Frank has also been a trusted resource for guidance and advice, making a lasting impact on my professional journey. So, Frank, thank you for joining us today.

Sean, thank you very much for having me and also for the most kind words. Thank you.

Of course.

As I mentioned, obviously you've played quite a significant role in my career. As I said – and I mean it – you’re a great role model when it comes to leadership, which is something we talk about a lot.

People always have very different perceptions of what great leadership looks like. I'd love to hear what your approach to this subject is. What do you believe are the key attributes of being a good leader in hospitality?

Well, this is, of course, a discussion we could have for two, three hours. Let me try to have a look at the key ingredients that I believe make for great leadership.

First, it starts with oneself. What does that mean? As a leader, you have to know who you are. You have to have a profound understanding about your own strengths, weaknesses, abilities: the way you come across, things you can do very well. And, maybe, things you are not so good at. So, that is, I guess, the start, because only if you know yourself can you lead others.

Second, one needs to understand that we human beings are all imperfect. Knowing this makes it easier; you can grant a certain degree of imperfection to all of us. Because when you lead people, all too often, you expect perfection at all times, at all levels, in all circumstances. And that is, of course too much when it comes to looking at what people can do. So you have to know yourself profoundly. You have to understand that, everybody's imperfect and you have to embrace – though it sounds a bit odd – the imperfection of yourself and others. This is the basis to evolve and develop a human view of people, right? Not a robotic view of people. I truly believe that those you lead can always feel this even though you don't see it.

Then of course, there’s communication. So be transparent. Set clear goals together. Know what the culture of your company is or should be. Be aware of it. And to try to make sure that you understand what levels your team are on: what makes them tick, what triggers them. So, you need an individual view on all your team. It doesn’t matter if you have five people, ten people – nobody is the same. You might have some introverts around you, others might be extroverts, but each and every one deserves an individual approach. Which is, of course, occasionally exhausting, right? Because every single time it's not about the content alone. It's the way you need to interact with your team. But maybe these are universal ingredients.

The rest, of course, then depends on your style and on who you are. The way you can express yourself, how good you are rhetorically. It's always a matter not of taste, but an individual way of getting across what you believe is important to the team.

And the last one is ambition. You know, going to the Olympics alone is, for me, not an ambition. The ambition is to win, right? Not participation. And I strongly believe in setting an ambitious goal in an environment which is based on respect. So respectfully pushing ourselves to that next level. That is how I view it.

You've been the CEO now for quite some time. I would love to hear about what, along the way, were the biggest lessons you learned and challenges you might have faced, and how those influenced your leadership style?

I mean, there are many things. Let's look at the role of a CEO in general.

A: a good CEO is able to create a vision for the company. I mean, they have a long-term view on things.

B: a good CEO is the custodian of culture. You need to protect whatever culture you feel is appropriate for your company. And sometimes it can be at risk. So you need to be able to make sure that culture can be maintained and guarded.

C: a good CEO constantly changes and challenges the status quo. The circumstances and role of the CEO is to sometimes ignore what reality offers you, right? So that you have the energy to just not accept what maybe everybody else sees as unavoidable. These three elements are super important.

So, over time, of course, you learn in particular not to accept how things are. So, today was created yesterday. And tomorrow is created today. You can always change the future. That maybe sounds too aloof, but remember that passiveness leads to a different future than being active. Negativity leads to a different outcome than positivity. There’s a difference between positivity and being naïve. But I guess that's the role of the CEO.

What I learned, and coming back to your question, is to also manage my own energy, right? Because I keep that positive distance between many challenges and issues, you know; you need opportunities to preserve your energy levels, to also have a look at where you can get your energy back. I get a lot of energy from interacting with my team. I get a lot of energy from successfully managing or overcoming an obstacle together. But I also need energy from, you know, going to the Black Forest, to take my bicycle. It's never enough time – but to spend time with my friends and family, so that I protect a  minimum of my private life, is important to me.

So, the lesson learned is: at the very beginning, when I started, I said: ‘It's a 24/7 job.’ You know, you never stop, you  constantly work and you never pause. And I realised that that's not good, because I ran out of good ideas as I was so busy – too busy to see opportunities anymore. I had to allow myself to sometimes to relax. Like when you sit on the train or on a plane or whatever, to allow yourself 15 minutes not to be on your mobile phone, not to do research, not to look at emails – just sit there and look out of the window and let your thoughts fly.

It sounds banal, maybe, but it's important because the brain needs that. You know, the brain needs space, the brain needs inspiration. That could be a beautiful countryside. Inspiration can be a wonderful conversation with the passenger next to you, going to a museum – whatever it is. Liberate your mind and keep it open because that's another element. Everybody who is relatively successful over a longer period of time tends to think they know it all. It’s natural. I mean, it can happen to all of us. So, protect yourself from this perception because it's wrong. And surround yourself with people who maybe challenge your views.

That's another learning, you know, over time: make sure that you have enough people around who will tell you, ‘Frank, I'm sorry, but your idea is really, not good. Or maybe it's stupid.’ Encourage people to challenge you, which is difficult, of course. Again, it's easier said than done because, you know, as a CEO, you think, ‘Hey, in practical terms, you're a nice guy.’ You’re treating people equally, but there is distance always because of the sheer fact that you carry these three letters. CEO: it creates difference and distance. So, make this distance as small as you can.

Looking at talent, we all know particularly hospitality talent has always been or is always a little trickier and has its own challenges.  I’d love to hear from you: when you do look at hiring for senior leadership roles, what are some of the challenges you are facing in the current market? And then I think particularly, how important is the overall aspect of diversity, equity and inclusion, within the process?

So as a little, let's say prologue to my answer, and advice particularly to younger people: ask more questions than you make statements as a leader, even if you think you know the answer. Because the more you make statements, no matter how correct and valid they are, people tend to be, you know, less and less active. They will wait for you to make the call because you're so ‘good’ at it. What challenges do we face when we look for senior leadership? One observation is that it's not a challenge. It's more what we need to be aware of. For instance, family or partners. Are they happy? When a senior leader moves to a new city, I cannot just look at the applicant or, you know, the team member I already have with me. I cannot take it for granted that sending him from London to Munich is a great move just because the Munich hotel is a superb opportunity. I need to see if the family likes it and the challenges I see.

But as the world has changed, of course. Sometimes it is more difficult for senior leaders to convince their families to frequently move from A to B to C. So, that is, I guess, it's important. You need to make sure that the personal environment of your senior leader allows that. And I've seen it in the past where even senior leaders sometimes after a certain time realise why that maybe is not a great move. As in, ‘I don't feel comfortable. My family doesn't feel comfortable. I want to go back, or it's not for me.’ So maybe this has changed, how people view their jobs and their private lives. But it's not a criticism. Because I have to accept that in my life, I never looked at this for me. My family always, ultimately, accepted whatever the job I had required. But I cannot just take that as given when I speak to leaders who are younger than I am.

Other than that, I don't see a lot. Because all the other elements – you know, treat people with respect, offer opportunities, grant them freedom to be an entrepreneur, have a good conversation – all that remains the same. Otherwise, maybe it’s my subjective observation, but I think COVID has changed people’s minds a little bit. How? Sometimes people are more sensitive towards pressure. Maybe; I don't know. I don't want to sound unfair, but maybe there is a lesser degree of resilience. I might be wrong, you know, and it’s not true for everybody. But I see that a little bit.

So what does that mean? I have to be even more cautious. I have to be more sensitive in my role: where people are, how they feel about it. So maybe these are the two elements which I believe have changed over time.

And, before we wrap it up, to go back to the question about the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion in the overall hiring process, because I think it's an crucial topic. I would love to get your thoughts on it.

I think companies must embrace the concept of diversity. It's absolutely imperative. Why? I mean, first of all: how can you understand a complex, diverse, diverse world if your team has a monoculture – you know, if they only see one aspect of the world? You’d better make sure that you have various generations within your company. And, depending what business you are in –as a hotelier, a hotel company is an international business – that you have a cultural understanding and that different nationalities are with you. So, without this, you will miss a lot of opportunities.

And it is also crucial to give opportunities. The world has 50% female and 50% male population. There is no reason why this should not be reflected in business or in politics. There’s a lot of female talent, you know, which, would not, could not, cannot be used because of circumstances. So, a company has to encourage employees to have families. If a woman fears or feels uncomfortable saying she’s going to expect a baby because she maybe fears that her career will stop, or that the company looks at her as an inconvenience because she’ll be away for six or nine months – that’s terrible. As a leader, you can make a difference in the time you’re in this seat. I guess I must make a little difference because I have the means and possibilities to change my company in this sense. So, super important. Not because it's an obligation to do. It's an opportunity. It's a chance. Diverse teams can manage a complex, diverse world better. It's as simple as that.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It's been great getting your viewpoints.

Yeah, thank you so much, Sean. I have to thank you.

And, to finish, I always looked at the chance to work with many people – different people – as enrichening part of my own life. My dad, you know, who's 85, and, Sean, you might remember  the four-M formula, which is of course in German. If you translate it, it says you must – you should like people. If you are in the service industry – and I love people – that makes it all too wonderful to be in the hospitality industry. So, thank you very much.

If you would like to discuss leadership strategy in the hospitality and leisure space, please reach out to Sean today.